Cody: So it seems like a lot of clients, last ones that we've worked with in the past, that they sign up and they're ready almost immediately for marketing deliverables and things to get out there and to start generating this crowd, influencing, proud, but they don't quite have an identity which is branding. Which is what we do. So what is your pitch to them to go in and sort of sell the branding exercise... The branding workshop. Before we get started.

Maura: Yeah, first of all, I understand it's very enticing to put stuff out there to hook people, especially if you feel panicked or if you feel like you don't have a huge budget, but I would say there's two sides to every type of channel or market, whatever type of marketing, you do, their substance and attention, and you do have to get people's attention and once you have that, What are you going to do with it? What's the substance behind your brand? So brand awareness and lead generation should work together. If you only have a little bit of cash, I would veer more brand awareness because you do have to have that substance, do you have to have that identity, you do have to attract the right audience.

My mother has a saying, you know, you always want your hand like this, not like this, and a lot of times, if you build good brand awareness, this is your hands on top, yes. You come do business with us because we're part of an identity that you have to... That appeals to you, and you have to have lead generation is or asking for permission before somebody knows who you are, and that's very simplified, but I would say those two have to work in tandem and...it's so important. You don't have to have millions of dollars in the coffers to have a memorable identity, but you should have core values, you should know where you stand on certain things, and the value of brand awareness and branding is all around us, it's unavoidable. And whenever you think that there's not direct ROI on it, you're right, I'm not going to be able to give you a brand awareness campaign and tell you how it did, how it did in two weeks, you are gonna be able to do that more with lead gen. But at the same time, if you don't do it, you won't experience those longer term gains that brand awareness, there's been enough research to support that brand awareness brings...